Two Headed Girl
Episode 36 artwork
Episode 36 · June 23, 2022 · 00:36:17

36. Big Ol' Gay Store

This weekIt’s that time of year again- Pride Month! Join Alex and Mattie as they revisit rainbow capitalism and how it has evolved since last year.
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Show notes

Show Notes

Rainbow Capitalism links (indulge or not, we won’t judge)



Queer Owned Businesses


Miscellaneous


Our favorite resource for supporting trans youth: 


The Trevor Project | For Young LGBTQ Lives


Thank you to our pod pals

Kevin Budnik @knittedsweater Quinn Rose @aspiringrobotfm Seth Boyer @sethboyer Kara Fagan @karafagan

Support the show!  Two Headed Girl is creating Queer Podcasts | Patreon


Transcript

Tap a timestamp or any sentence to play from there · machine transcribed (mlx:mlx-community/whisper-large-v3-turbo), expect mistakes

AlexHi, I'm Alex Cox. And I'm Mattie Cox. This is a show about gender, our minds, and all sorts of transitions. Welcome to Two Headed Girl.

MattieHello, Matthew. Happy Pride. Happy Pride. What are we here to talk about, Alex?

AlexWe have decided to revisit rainbow capitalism like we did last year. Matthew, what's rainbow capitalism?

MattieIt's when a bunch of businesses start putting their rainbows everywhere, even if they don't support gay people during the year, like Chick-fil-A.

AlexChick-fil-A doesn't put rainbows.

MattieOkay, well, like Banks, like the Paramount logo on Apple TV, like Absolute Vodka, like Target, like literally any big company you can think of adds a rainbow to its logo, puts a rainbow flag in its window, and benefits off of gay people during the month of June, and then everything goes away after that. July 1st, shut it down, Murica.

AlexThe meme that a lot of people share of companies hitting a button and then changing their logos to rainbows on, you know, like he's at all social media sites and everything on midnight, May 31st, is very funny. However, the Paramount Plus icon on Apple TV literally did change over at midnight.

MattieAnd you took a picture. It was very funny.

AlexOh my gosh. Both of us have a lot of complicated, and I would almost say controversial, opinions about what we, you know, about rainbow capitalism and the ramifications of it.

MattieAlso kind of the benefits of it.

AlexYeah. Yes. Spoilers.

MattieHow is it? Spoilers? We're recording about it right now.

AlexYes, spoilers for five minutes from now. It's just a really complicated issue for me personally. And I guess just to quickly cover last year, my overall thought is while it makes me uncomfortable to see, you know, Starbucks and Target.

MattieTarget. Target.

AlexTarget. target and um and especially banks um really trying to market specifically to queer people over the month and then not doing things like enforcing anti-discrimination policies or providing queer health care you know it's a bit of um hypocrisy is a strong word and kind of an overused word but it feel it feels gross one thing that's sort of adjacent to pride capitalism

is the very new practice probably only in the past i think two years i've seen this of cops decorating cars uh in rainbows gun holsters and they put rainbow rainbow flag stickers on their gun holsters oh my god and why is this gross matthew because cops are terrible to queer people because the whole idea of pride was after the stonewall riots where the cops came in

and broke up this queer club and arrested a bunch of people and now cops are in pride parades oh god I didn't know about the gun thing so I'm sort of reeling from that but the one comfort I take from this is I bet that the homophobic cops really make fun of it as they also should and hopefully whoever has done it realizes the hypocrisy

Mattiemaybe they put the most homophobic cops in the cars with rainbows on the sides and then they get called fags that is actually something you said and I thought it was very funny You said the quiet part left.

AlexOkay, Jonathan Larson. I just find the idea so funny that a cop can be driving around and other cops are just calling him a faggot.

MattieThere's a pink cop car in Halstead that has rainbow and trans flags on it. Not that there's no from what I see, there's no like inclusion flag, but there's yeah, trans flag.

AlexSo they're like, don't worry, everybody. We still hate black and brown people.

MattieYeah. But yeah, pretty much. And we were driving down Halstead the other day and I was like, I don't know how it makes me feel to see pride inclusion flag and then a America flag and then like American flag. And you were like, I know exactly how it makes me feel. And I was like, I mean, yeah, gross. Like you want to barf pretty much. Because, you know, as is typical with pride capitalism, come July 1st, everything will switch over to America.

AlexYeah, all of those rainbow logos, red, white, and blue logos, baby.

MattieSo we mentioned that we have some controversial opinions about pride capitalism and did, by that I think we mean, or at least what I mean is that I think the exposure of queer stuff, like pride items in bigger stores like Target is good because it bring it like, it almost normalizes, you know, that the gay culture because it's in a big corporation and we touched on this last year

but I still think it's very important and relevant that some people live in like a desert of no they can't afford to buy things online some kids don't you know how do you get a card or to buy things online things are more expensive and to just like go in a target and buy a pride shirt for 10 bucks or to go in the dollar section and buy some flags or whatever um just having more access to those things I feel like normalizes it a bit more I was even thinking about wouldn't it

be so cool if there was just like a gender neutral clothing section like they kept that stuff all year round but it wasn't necessarily like covered in rainbows it was just like they kept like the tomboy x in stores or they kept like the tank tops that cover binders or they kept binders like wouldn't it be cool if that became a section in the store like i thought that that was now a thing

Alexat like old navy because my whole thing last year where we focused a lot on target because of course we did were white millennials who grew up mostly in the suburbs. My whole thing was I wish that along with all of the rainbows came practical products that trans people could use. For example, binders or even, let's say, packing underwear, which I never thought I would see in a store,

But guess what? This year, Target has packing underwear and they label it as such.

MattieDo you want to explain what packing underwear is?

AlexOh, I apologize. Yes. Packing underwear is for people who don't have a penis, but like to use a prosthetic of some sort in their undies.

MattieTo create a bulge.

AlexYeah, so just to either alleviate dysphoria or to just have one because who cares whether or why someone wants a packer. No one should. That's the answer. No one should care except the person wearing it. And Target, to complicate things, by things I mean the morality in my brain, they have partnered with a lot of queer-owned companies.

MattieYeah, like Tomboy X.

AlexYeah. And so I'm like, huh, hmm, hmm. If a kid can go in with cash, not a closeted kid, non-traceable, can just go in and get a binder, huh.

MattieBut that's not stuff they're keeping all year round. But how do we know?

AlexBecause this is the first year that they've ever done it.

MattieI guess we don't, but I feel like if I can compare it to, so during Black History Month, they have a little section of Black History Month stuff, Black Lives Matter, all that. And this actually this year they kept it around. And now obviously I'm not qualified to speak on this, but in comparing it with queer clothing, they have little stickers like labels on clothing and jewelry and all these products there are created by black owned businesses.

And they kept that all year round.

AlexAnd I'm still conflicted by it because there's vibes that sort of correlate to the, quote, green consumer movement where it's like, yeah, everything is made out of something recycled. But we as a company are responsible for a lot of corporate pollution. and you'll actually you'll need to tell me if i'm wrong but i believe right now all of the pride

things are in one section like a problem as you know like a promotional section right which i understand but uh are the things like binders or packing underwear in the you know underwear section

MattieNo, just the, yeah. And that's why I compared it to the Black Lives Matter stuff, because they actually, so they have a separate section for that too, but they kept it all year round.

AlexWait, so they diversified into segregation?

MattieYeah, pretty much.

AlexYeah. Hey, everybody, here's the corner where all the Black-owned businesses are.

MattieYeah. Jesus. Yeah, so it is gross. sit is gross oh but one of my favorite things is i can't remember if this was through target or a different store but uh a little queer youth on tiktok you know they tear down the pride capitalism

Alexas they should like i understand it's one of my favorite things to see people dunk on it but there

Mattiewas a thing for a non-binary shirt and then the options were men's fits and women's fits non-binary shirt and it was like you know they they had they their heart was in the right place but they just missed the what's that quote from tiktok like uh they did not understand the assignment there you

Alexgo yeah it's a i mean this is the question though were their hearts in the right place

Mattieis there a heart i don't know you know what i would be interested in if someone could comment or let us know or send us an email or dm if they are working for any of these corporations and they are put in charge like the one queer token queer they're like all right you're gonna set up the pride section like to make it seem like you know what i mean i wonder i i wonder because i i mean at starbucks everyone is queer let's be real but i remember that i did get to like decorate the

board and I got to put up the flags and stuff like that as like the token trans and I think that was the first year they started hanging uh trans flags was it was like five years ago ish so um but they were like yeah the gays can do it because they're artistic and I I just I wonder if people if they do that for the employees at like Target and Walmart and stuff I'm wondering how your

Alexfeelings have evolved. I've gotten kind of excited about thinking about this every year and, you know, the progress or lack thereof. And I don't know, man, I've been struggling now more than ever. Canceled. You called me man. No, wait. I said, I don't know, man, as a...

MattieI know. I was just messing with you. Sorry. Go ahead.

AlexI got called out on that a couple times for being like, oh, man, I'm like, it's an exclamation. Like, I'm not calling you God if I'm like, oh, my God. Anyway, that's dumb. What I am just really even more conflicted about is the aspect of bringing in outside products like Tomboy X and promoting them when it's like, oh, God, I'm so conflicted.

MattieI wish they would keep them year round.

AlexBut will they?

MattieI know. That's the thing. I can't find a good answer. I mean, we are literally just going to have to wait and see. It's not going to be that much longer. It's like two weeks. And maybe they'll just have them available online. But even that's something. I don't even remember seeing any Pride merch in stores until college. Maybe I was like 21, 22. So this would have been 2012.

AlexOh, definitely. I don't remember probably until 2013.

MattieI might have been. Hot Topic. I remember the first Pride merch I saw in like 2011, 2012 was in Hot Topic.

AlexI mean, that's really saying something too. Because while the Hot Topic is meant to be seen as, you know, the cool edgy store.

MattieOh, this was before it changed. Now it's not the cool edgy store anymore. Now it's just like a pop culture place. But this is before. This is when it was still edgy and dark. it was like for the weirdos and they were like ah the queers are weirdos like like basically like that yeah now it's just a big box of fandom um which that anyway different podcast

Alexanother campaign that is becoming more common are banks offering credit and debit cards with your quote chosen name. And it's like, who cares? But also, yeah, people care.

And it's really gross to try to market credit cards to people who can't afford them, probably queer kids. But also, I mean, it would be nice to have a card that said Alex and not Alexandra. not because I want to legally change my name, but it's so confusing when people like when I give my credit card to somebody and they have been perceiving me as a man and doing sir. And like, I'm not going to cry. I'm like, okay, yeah, go with the flow. And then they see Alexandra

and a look of horror appears on their face. So I don't know. Like I want it to be the default of yes just choose what name you want to put on your card instead of it being like hey gays look at

Mattiethis fun feature yeah it wasn't didn't you say it was specifically like marketed by like a um there was a commercial or like an online advertisement or something that was marketed by someone who looked like androgynous yeah yeah yeah and the it's so it was so stupid

Alexuh the the biggest change actually is crypto has gotten into the pride what no way and i mean this is for a different podcast for sure but you know what in fact it is i will promote my new podcast called Technically Queer with three of my friends who are, guess what, very queer and very into tech. So we're going to cover the queer and, oh God, I can't, oh, I'm going to puke.

The queer NFT space because that's blowing up right now. Oh, yikes. But I'm going to try not to think about it during this episode. I want to know your thoughts about how this big consumer pride month has gone for you.

MattieWell, I have bought some stuff from Target because, look, I fall for rainbow capitalism. I do. I love it. It's just something that I didn't have in my youth. And it so when I first came out, I promise this relates. when I first like was out out to everyone around me in college I wore rainbow stuff all the time you know this because you met me and then I got you got me when I was you got me you met me when I was still in that stage technically you did get me and reel me in but and then I got my rainbow

ankle tattoo and I was like so I have a rainbow all year round and then I didn't feel the need to like wear rainbow things everywhere because I was like this is this is just a little thing for me and if I want to be out I can't be out but I don't have to wear rainbows all the time but in pride month I do like the shirt I found that is says rose apothecary on it and it's a rainbow and it's from Schitt's Creek like I found that at Target and it is an amazing shirt like I love it so much yeah see and then there's gimmick there's gimmicky things like you know like love is love

ally big rainbows but and then something else i noticed was that while pride capitalism is gross

Alexum but also fun because you know that show i just mentioned about tech and specifically queer tech go to technicallyqueer.com um all of us while we detest the the co-opting of pride guess what all of us were wearing our pride apple watch bands so we all get reeled in consume i yeah but that's

Mattiethe thing is people buy like it's not just pride capitalism like if you want to go there it's even like people buy things from amazon even though amazon is big and gross people buy things from apple even though apple is big and gross like yeah it's not just about pride capitalism like capitalism is awful in general oh hot take hot take uh shut up i i mean and i i don't know if it's like like i don't know if it's like this for the youth or like gen z because it's not a novelty

for them right you know like right and for us it is and i think my brain defaults to any exposure is good exposure which i know is not always true i remember the first time that i walked around Boys Town down Halstead and there were just rainbows in every store and that was before the big pride sections and Target and stuff like that and I just it was it was glorious to me just to see queer things everywhere that were just I mean I guess it wasn't like normal because I was

in the gay neighborhood but like it felt normalized to me it was just like going in a store it wasn't Like, here is that big gay store. It was just a store, you know?

AlexRight.

MattieThe big old gay store.

AlexAnd people, you know, have argued that with all of this rainbow capitalism, rainbow capitalism, pride capitalism, whatever you want to call it, it takes business away from other queer-owned spaces. And I don't know if that is true anymore. And the reason I say that is, you know, younger people, because it isn't the novelty, like you said, like recognize this game as, okay, this is they're selling this as a fandom.

You know, it's no different than getting like a Ninja Turtles shirt for a lot of people. Right. And when a company does something even more gross to me, for example, creating a t-shirt that is nearly exactly the same as the ACT UP t-shirts from the late 80s and early 90s and selling it, like the pink triangle ACT UP logo, it's disgusting.

But this year, like a bunch of people called them out on it. And usually social media mobs don't exactly get a lot done. But in this case, you know, they stopped selling the shirt. And then people learned about ACT UP and the AIDS movement. And along with that, because everyone's talking about the awkwardness of rainbows being sold everywhere, is more people know about the Stonewall Riots, which more and more people know about it every year.

So it adds another layer to the complex feelings I have.

MattieI'm going to plug my favorite episode about the Stonewall Riot, which is from You're Wrong About from a while ago. Yes. That's actually, we'll put it in the show notes because that's one of the, honestly, other than in gay history class, that's the episode that taught me the most about it because I don't really read.

AlexSo we'll also put in the episode of your wrong about sibling podcast, American Hysteria, because Chelsea Weber Smith also did a great episode about Stonewall. And these episodes aren't by straight people.

MattieThey're actually. So there you go. Getting away from gross pride capitalism and support your queer creators.

AlexYeah, and support this podcast by going to patreon.com slash twoheadedgirl because it's Pride Month. And if you don't, it's homophobic.

MattieDo your support of queer businesses. Give us your money.

AlexWe are a queer business. Cox Productions, LLC.

MattieCox.

AlexYes, yes. Our last name is a penis. Multiple penises. is uh any what else did you want to mention about how you're feeling this year versus last year

Mattiein particular i have noticed over the past year how many more small trans-owned businesses there are and that is great like so many and i think it really took off on tiktok a lot of the people are gen z's tiktok and instagram but there's like an explosion and i'm sure you've noticed like there's so many more binder companies there's so many more queer clothing companies there's so many more like prosthetic companies and and everything and it's just there's so many small queer businesses

to support now that like the list would be pages and pages long like I think last year we had like 10 in the show notes and I could do like 30 this year and oh yeah like yeah I could do at least 100 Oh, I don't know if I could do that many, but like in my maybe like 50, but we're not going to put that many. Google.

AlexYes, you will get thousands of results.

MattieYeah, but I think that's great. And I think it's almost not like an act against pride capitalism, not like a countermeasure, but like, maybe a little like because it, it brings more, more awareness that like you should buy queer things from from queer people just like you should buy or get black. oh like you know what i mean you should buy things to support like black creators from

Alexfrom poc people part of it is also i think the quality a lot of these stores have in terms of not being like a i don't know who's designing the this listen target clothes are crappy in general

Mattieit doesn't matter when they're from or what they're from target are crap right and i can't

Aleximagine that the packing underwear binders are great so well that's that's the thing um it is

Mattietrans-owned businesses quality is great smaller companies well some let's not blanket i'm not well i wasn't blanketing what i was going to say is the problem with that is that generally they're more expensive yep um because they're ethically sourced and like run by only a couple people and smaller and like a lot of queer people don't have that much money and while they do like a couple of my favorite companies do uh like axelom and gc2b which i find there are better binder companies now

but they do giveaways um all and not just during june like all year round um or they have like gender cat where you can donate five dollars and like that money goes towards buying people that can't afford a prosthetic a prosthetic like things like that they have trans youth funds

Alexbut isn't that almost at this point similar to companies that are like would you like to add 50 cents to your purchase to give to orphans or something like you said you just mentioned how you know these companies do good things but does that really matter in the scheme of things because giveaways are just another way to market things they're not doing this out of good of their hearts

Mattienecessarily yeah that's you're right that's true um and that's why i was my initial thoughts are that like the quality in most small trans owned companies is better the products are obviously made by queer people for queer people so like like we were talking about the styles of clothes like cover binders or if you have issues with dysphoria make your hips less wide or in certain styles cuts and colors like newer binder company I think for them it's called for

them oh they they make binders for people that are you know different sizes whereas GC2B binders tend to fit people that are mostly smaller. And I think more companies like that have come out because of Pride Capitalism and are like, yeah, support your small queer owned businesses. But yeah, the one main problem I have with that is that they're so expensive and a lot of queer people don't have the money to spend, unfortunately, which is why I mentioned giveaways. I'm not

saying they're doing it out of the good of their heart. I'm saying that unfortunately, if it is made by a small company, it's going to cost more. So that's why you might buy that $10 shirt at Target. And that's where my conflicted feelings come in because I want to support trans businesses and I am lucky enough that I can, right? I have that income, but a lot of people don't.

AlexTotally. Unfortunately, this year I've started to see backlash from queer people getting mad at other queer people from buying this a lot of mass market pride stuff and we will say it again and again a lot of people that's all they can access even if it's not a cost issue you can you don't need to get it shipped anywhere and you don't need a debit or credit card yeah yeah

The banks that are telling you you can put your name on a card, but they're still going to have that ridiculously high interest rate.

MattieExactly. And I think that's the main thing is I understand the discourse. I understand being like support your fellow queers. But I also wish that people would see the other side of it. Like you're not against the queer community if you're buying mass produced products from big companies. That doesn't mean you're shaming or like, ugh, I don't want to give you money. No, it just means like generally that you don't have access to that or you don't have the resources or finances for that.

And just sharing, just sharing like that stuff like Flaunt or Mars Right or Gender Cat or GC2B, like just being like these are things that are open to you where you like to take it in a more positive direction. Like, yes, these are small trans owned businesses, queer owned businesses that you can support. But and like, you know, like mention or let people know that they're out there. but you don't have to solely buy for them to be a supportive queer person you know what i mean

like we don't have to shit on people for buying mass-produced things we've gotten to this weird

Alexplace of classism within the queer community yeah like we just need more of that everywhere Right? Okay, everybody, let's calm down. Because you know what? I am going to keep buying shampoo from places like, well, like, I don't usually buy shampoo from an artisanal hair store. Good Lord. See, I don't know. That's the thing is, if being queer also isn't like a big part of your personality or if being in a queer space makes you feel, for example, if you're trans and you're stealth or you're not out and it causes dysphoria and you just want to go get your shit and leave, like, I don't know.

Who cares? I don't know.

MattieNo, I agree.

AlexI mean, a lot of people I know stuck up asshats care.

MattieNo, and I understand caring about that, but I think it's another issue that's just not black and white. You know what I mean? Nothing is black and white, but people are making it black and white, and it's not that. you can you can buy things and support things from both and it doesn't mean you're against the queer community and that's what i think for me seeing pride capitalism around has changed the most is people are like well don't buy into this mass-produced stuff because you're you're against

us and it's like no that's not like no that's not right incorrect i just thought of something that

Alexwould be maybe funny i don't know i want to buy a shirt that says ally on it and see just see people get if i get a reaction from anybody because looking at me i don't think you'd your first thought would be yes queer ally so the first thought would be queer queer yes big queer

Mattiebiggest queer i am sad scared and excited to see where pride capitalism and small queer owned businesses how it evolves towards the future what i ultimately wish to see is gender neutral clothing sections or just not having things labeled men and women in general like why does it need to be that way it doesn't because you can wear whatever clothing you want

Alexjust like girls and boys toys don't need to be separated well and we've seen a big shift that's

Mattienot as prevalent as it used to be it's still there it's super prevalent in like walmart and

Alextarget and all those big stores yes it is um oh no i mean um there's more of an emphasis on educational toys and you know the i'm trying to think of um like montessori and like learning toys as opposed to like yeah the hipster toys not even just that but um for for example marvel typically we'd be like yes that is the the boy superhero type thing uh now it's like hey you know

we can do we can sell marvel characters to boys girls gays everybody and you get an iron man and you get an iron man and i don't know all of those things yeah no you're you're right and i just want

Mattieto see more of that in general like i we are specifically talking about clothing but like let's and like keep your pride section and don't call it a pride section and also don't segregate

AlexMatthew thank you so much for joining me today in our bedroom yeah I mean it was a real struggle to get here let me tell you I know I know is there anything else you wanted to share where

Mattiecan people find us on the internet at twoheadedgirlfm on twitter and instagram I just started buffing up our instagram by that I mean posting on it so uh go check it out and I mentioned my favorite queer creators and queer small owned businesses there. So if you want to know more about that stuff, you should go to our Instagram. Yeah.

AlexIf you want to do capitalism, Mattie has got you. You heard it here. Matthew Cox.

MattieCapitalist expert.

AlexOkay. I am Alex Cox.

MattieAnd I'm Mattie Cox.

AlexThanks again for listening to this episode of Two Headed Girl. And happy Pride Month.

Thank you.

36. Big Ol' Gay Store 0:00 / 00:36:17