35. Schitt's Creek- A Queer Utopia
2022Show notes
Schitt’s Creek: A Queer Utopia
In this throwback episode, Alex, Mattie, and special guest Quinn Rose, discuss Schitt’s Creek. Listen to our hot takes about wholesomeness and queer characters in this lovely Canadian show, created by Dan and Eugene Levy.
Spoilers for the entire series!
Thank you again for supporting Two Headed Girl!
Show Notes:
- Arrested Development
- David Rose
- David explains his sexuality- Wine Clip
- Dan Levy
- Eugene Levy
- Mariah Carey and Schitt’s Creek
- Moira Rose- Gay Icon
- Rent
- Schitt’s Creek Character Creation
- Simply The Best Clip
- Wynonna Earp
Transcript
Tap a timestamp or any sentence to play from there · machine transcribed (mlx:mlx-community/whisper-large-v3-turbo), expect mistakesAlexHello, everybody, and welcome to Opposite Sides of the Couch. You're hearing this episode, hopefully, because you're backing the Two Headed Girl Patreon. Thank you so much for doing that. And especially thank you to Quinn Rose, who is joining us today. Hooray! Hello. Thank you for having me again. Quinn, in case people rage quit over something I say, where will people be able to find you on the internet?
Quinnwow what a way to set up that question uh you can find me usually on twitter at aspiring robot fm and i make other podcasts but you can find them on my twitter so just go there it's fine well i will i mean though you do have a new one i'm told oh i have a new podcast about the muppet movies um and it's very wholesome and it's just me and stephen hackett once a month talking about a Muppet movie and it's it's been really fun so if you like the Muppets check it out it's called oh
Alexit's called uh Bear Left Right Frog giggle every time I hear it well we have joined together today to talk about my new favorite show and really my new favorite queer show Schitt's Creek which just
Quinnended this april yay i mean not yay that it ended yay that we're talking about it
Mattiei'm very excited my notes are called capitalism in canada oh dear chiscree is this lovely little uh canadian show that i would classify as a dramedy although on wikipedia it's listed as a sitcom which i don't think is quite right disagree it is created by dan and eugene levy and uh it aired it started in january 13th uh 2015 and just ended this april uh has six seasons and the basic
plot is this wealthy family loses all their money and they have to move to this really uh small town called Schitt's Creek that Johnny, the father of the family, bought for his son as a his son David as a joke and they must get used to living there all together. The mom, dad and their two adult children in a motel, basically in two motel rooms in a tiny little rural town and with no money.
AlexInitially, I was reluctant to watch this show, I think, because I thought it would just be a Canadian arrested development type of thing. Because it's like, all right, a rich family gets into some illegal financial trouble and then goes off into quote unquote poverty. uh but that's definitely not what it is at its core and we'll get into that but Quinn when did
you learn about this show or start watching this show because I don't know hearing 2015 I'm like oh yeah that's that's like another era yeah I actually didn't start watching this until
Quinnearly 2019 because I remember the fifth season was airing while I was watching it um and I had just heard about it from a lot of people it was pretty under the radar for a few years and then it started picking up a lot of steam around the fifth season and I just heard so many people tell me that they loved it that I was like great sure I like shows um so I started watching and then I had what I think is a very common experience that a lot of people have which is that I started
watching it and I liked it well enough for the first season and a half or so but I was I didn't really understand why people loved it the way that they were telling me they loved it and then somewhere in the second season and especially by the end of the season it just clicked and I was
Alexlike well I would die for anyone in this show now yep same here I was like okay this is a funny show i uh really like this uh clearly queer character david or rather i assumed immediately perhaps wrongly which we'll get to that uh this this gay kid what but he's really like what 35 and his obnoxious sister uh all right fine i guess this is funny but it's not the best thing
ever and it was a it was like a fucking bait and switch because I ended up crying uh not not during every episode I would say like every every three or so after the second season uh and it's hard to pinpoint where exactly you decide yep I am going to definitely murder if anybody hurts Catherine O'Hara um and it's really really brilliant and that's part of why I wanted to talk about it and
not just because of the queer representation within the show well we started watching it
Mattielike a month ago and watched all of it in July and after every episode in the first season he would turn Alex he would turn and look at me and be like it's so wholesome and like literally every episode in the first season and by then we were both like hooked the first season's a little
Alexrough but after that it was like yes of course but you should add an inflection to that really because I'm like it's so wholesome because again I expected Arrested Development and again like it's it was so wholesome and it's not a show that punches down and i mean yeah i think we should just get right into spoilers and yes definitely there will be spoilers go watch it all
Mattieon netflix before you listen to this if you haven't well you can't really buy it i oh i guess i suppose
Alexyou can buy it um on iTunes that's the problem with Canadian TV shows is I never quite know how to support them um like um not oh Wynonna Earp and Orphan Black I'm like I don't know how you're staying on the air so long it must have something to do with your government actually caring about the arts but I don't really know how that all shakes out which which is I think it's funny that your
notes are titled what? Capitalism in Canada? Yes Well I was worried because I'm like is the whole show just going to be this family trying to get back its fortune which I mean it kind of is but not really it's a show about very strange and beautiful humans and adapting and growing together and you're like well that's like every show but it's but no no no no that's actually how it is i don't know do you
what were your initial impressions quinn about how it was made and like the choices that were going on it's just it's the most un-american show and i mean it in a good way uh because it really yeah the the plot focus it it's all can the plot's conceived around money but that sort of dropped
Quinnvery early as a pretense yeah i think that the show is very ambitious like um ambitious in a way that you don't see immediately because it is set up to have like this really in-depth slow burn character development where it does start out like seeming like it's going to be arrested development kind of um but it's set up like that because eventually the characters do become good people
and likable people um which they aren't in the first episode in the very beginning of the show it's very interesting to watch like and and they take the time to actually slowly develop it for that to make sense it's not just like they flip a switch and they're like oh they're nice now or whatever um but the way that they are able to maintain character while making them actually likable and not just obsessed with the idea of getting out of the town because i think the first season is really propelled by that idea way more than the rest of the show for sure um which i also
think is in addition to like all tv shows like often having to find their footing in the first season a little bit um i think is a big reason why that one falls a little flatter than the later seasons but but yeah it's it's it's a driving force that works to set up the show but i also think that they use it really effectively always focused on character development like i think of the way the episode in which johnny has to get unemployment money and that's a really big early moment for his character and his marriage and them figuring
that out and you getting to see like more into their marriage beyond the sort of comedic aspect of the show like oh haha they're rich and now they're not and now they need to to get this big out again but it's like no what is the actual day-to-day of that what does that do to them as people how did how are they growing closer together because of what they're going through and i like seeing how that develops like literally episode to episode i had totally
Alexforgotten about the un the like filing for unemployment scene uh or entire episode really and again i assumed it'd be like how much could a banana cost twenty dollars uh like uh lucille but no Johnny Rose is is clueless but then actually takes the time to learn about why it's hard and like the injustices involved I mean it doesn't get heavy but you know there's that you know slow
wheel that begins to turn with character development and it was another I think that was sort of a pivotal thing where I just kind of cocked my head again it was like wholesome and again Canadian
MattieI think it's because like all of the characters deep down are good people whereas if we're going to keep comparing it to Arrested in a moment all the characters in that show are not good people which is why it's a good show right it's very it's very different in its characterization but like on purpose because everything is I've been watching a lot of interviews since now this show is my new obsession and uh dan levy says like every characterization and like all the plot points were like really
thought out beforehand like he had a book on each character and like how they would grow and change
Quinnand that really shows and i also think just on the note of the money part of it too they don't get super into the backgrounds of the parents but i think that they allude to a few points that they didn't come from money um they both like johnny rose built this video store empire and moira got rich through acting and also like by marrying johnny who had this empire um but even though they've been like super wealthy for however many years they weren't raised that way and so there is
an interesting contrast as well as like them having a different perspective on going back to having no money johnny was sort of a more like let's dig our heels in and moira having a little bit more panic about it um versus the kids who like have known nothing but obscene wealth their entire lives and like don't even know how to deal with it which they pull a lot more comedy from um but it's it's i feel like that they set up like these three different sort of sets of reactions to it um that plays well against each other as well yeah i never thought about that how um
Mattielike it just never dawned on me that johnny johnny's wealth was self-made like i don't know
Quinnwhy i didn't think about that but and they don't go into detail of like their specific upbringings but it's i think it's like safe to say that they weren't raised as wealthy as they were in adulthood so they do have like coming from different places than their kids were and i think it's a really
Alexgood point that you made that they they kind of allude to that because a lot of their quirkiness isn't just because haha now they're poor it's like they're total weirdos who happen in the best way who and who ended up with all of this wealth um and there are a lot of comedic moments i think in the first season but which is again why i was hesitant but then you realize that oh there's way
more to them because moira just isn't just uh this mom um of the family isn't just a rich actress or like a trophy wife no she is a she was on a soap opera and she cares deeply about her craft and is a singer and the the other reason I you know Johnny Rose I'm like oh he's very much a like as an American character when I I mean I didn't know he was Canadian once I or I didn't
know this show was supposed to take place in Canada um when I started watching it I uh was like really skeptical of this man who wants to get back in the business game and in america right now july 31st 2020 some people might be a little skeptical about capitalism and it's a little yeah yeah and but you're like oh no this this this person johnny who is is honestly less of a
patriarchal character um and more of a leader in sort of like the literal sense like he's the dad but his leadership doesn't come from like being a dad they're two very separate things as the show continues it's almost like they go off each character kind of has their own branch and you and that's because they don't have this thing in common which is their wealth and
you see how they can grow as a family even without like the fancy christmas parties and pianos oh the christmas episode oh god should we actually talk about the gay shit i was just gonna say that
MattieI was like, can we get into the game? Enough capitalism. Let's be real. Yeah. Quinn, what's your favorite episode?
QuinnOh, my gosh. I wasn't prepared for that question. Yeah. Wow. I'm not prepared if you were to ask me that question. Oh. I have a couple episodes that I definitely have returned to, like, over and over again. Because I had to wait for a long time between season five and season six. And I felt that wait. So I did rewatch a bunch of the show. I think I actually, now that I think of it, I did rewatch the whole show. but also a couple episodes several times and definitely the episode where they have um the open mic and patrick serenades david is definitely one i've returned to the episode where patrick
Mattiecomes out to his parents makes me feel everything i asked because i knew you would pick two the two and or two of the best queer episodes which is why i threw you the question
Quinnyeah honestly just every episode where patrick and david have a relationship milestone is like one i want to return to because i love patrick i would die for him um and i just want him to be
Mattiehappy patrick and david's relationship is so pure and so perfect and i love that again i've been uh listening to and watching a lot of interviews and i love that the point of the town is that there's no homophobia or bigotry it's just like accepted that they're gay and it's not a big deal and they can just be in like a regular ass relationship and it's almost like this little like utopia that I would want to move to and that's why I think the show we devoured it in
like a month because it's been a great escape from what's happening in the world so it's one
Quinnof those shows that you can just trust because you know that no matter what happens like no one's going to turn around and be homophobic to someone or be just an awful person like it's just it all of the fun and comedy and um drama of it comes from just like good people trying to do good things and and getting into goofy situations like nothing is that intense or high stakes about it in
Mattiethat way and none of the main gays are going to get rejected or killed like in most shows
Alexnope and like there are also so few like uh gay plot points like the those relationship milestones are played out the same way that the like straight you know like dave i don't know i keep calling Dave we keep calling David gay but as we know he is super de-duper
not or rather like gay in the binary sense of I remember that I can swear on this show because it's our show and not like the incomparable or something so I can say like penis in the butt stuff but you don't have to
QuinnI'm sorry
Alexjust because you can doesn't you should exactly well I did control myself when I almost compared this show to oh it's like a sci-fi show oh wait no it's just in Canada because then it made me sad and now it made everybody sad unless you're in Canada thank you for listening I hope you're doing well and I hope you don't run into anybody's
Mattieany americans and you get sick wait can we can we focus and finish your thought about how the gay relationship milestones are treated the same as the straight relationship milestones like between uh the sister alexis and ted the uh starts out as a kind of goofy nerdy vet and
Alexturns into a sexy bad boy vet uh yeah we started calling him canadian uh america or no i can't Captain Canada.
MattieCaptain Canada. Yeah.
AlexOh, my God.
QuinnYeah, that makes sense. He's a beautiful man.
AlexHe just came back and I'm like, oh, you're Chris Evans after the surgery or whatever happened in Captain America. But I honestly like the straight relationship with David's sister, Alexis Rose, and Ted, Captain Canada. is almost like more dramatic than David and Patrick's relationship. And I can't think of another show where there's more drama in the straight relationship.
That is wild and incredibly refreshing.
MattieThat's because Alexis is so extra. Let's be real.
AlexYeah. Oh, like David's not extra. Well, let's get into David, who is probably now one of my favorite characters on television ever. Like, David Rose is possibly one of, also one of the best portrayals of a queer person on TV with fluid sexuality.
Speaker ASo, just to be clear, I'm a red wine drinker. That's fine. Okay, cool, but I only drink red wine. Okay. And up until last night, I was under the impression that you, too, only drank red wine. But I guess I was wrong. I see where you're going with this. Um, I do drink red wine, but I also drink white wine.
And I've been known to sample the occasional rosé. And a couple summers back, I tried a Merlot that used to be a Chardonnay, which got a bit complicated. Okay, yeah, so you're just really open to all wines. I like the wine and not the label. Does that make sense? Yes, it does.
Alexanyway now that uh we have definitely all heard that clip and i just i didn't keep talking or anything um because he talks about his sexuality in such vague terms um is amazing like the line of uh i like or i care about the wine more than the label i guess is like mind-blowing to me
because if people have listened to the main episode of two or main show Two Headed Girl you know that that's kind of how i feel about my own sexuality because it's like i don't know it's whatever like merlot or rosé that is around and i like he really doesn't overthink it and that was something i've literally never seen on tv before and it also was it was played for laughs
but not because it's like haha david's queer and has fucked a bunch of people um and it but it is super funny that he's like he was a total uh he was very much me like a total queer slut trying to figure things out and it's beautiful but but in that moment it's like this silly dude explaining his sexuality to his pal and uh it's that's like not the butt of the joke the butt of the joke is he's a weird eccentric guy and i'm thinking about it right now and just feeling all of these
wholesome butterflies of how how many people watch that and we're like oh oh yeah cool cool cool cool and also oh fuck yeah that's me because as a 30 year old seeing someone on tv and saying fuck yeah that's that's me was very strange and refreshing well it's funny in that moment as well
Quinnbecause he's explaining it to his friend stevie who's just found out that david's not gay by sleeping with him which is such a funny way to find out that someone's not gay she was just like oh okay i need to get more details on this later i guess um but but i i find that episode very interesting and the way that um because i like he has this what has become pretty iconic to his character this explanation of his sexuality through wine and then in a different scene in that episode johnny tells another character um that david is pansexual and i found all this very
interesting for two reasons one that they actually use the word pansexual which is like as we talked about on the bi representation episode not super common to actually use words which i thought was very cool that they did that and i i could tell i could like tell that that was something that was important to dan levy making the show to actually like put a label on it um but i also find interesting that uh david doesn't identify himself as pansexual which and he doesn't i don't think they ever come back to that again um which i but i think it's like left open very
open to interpretation one is that like just in the context of the conversation using the wine analogy to fully explain himself made more sense to him and he maybe he does personally identify as pansexual um but it just like it never comes up again because why would it this town exists outside of homophobia um or like maybe he doesn't use the word pansexual super often but like that's how it made the most sense to explain himself to his parents and that's the conversation that he had with his parents to like help them understand in more concrete terms and i find it very interesting
that you can relate to it on different levels and they leave it open for the viewer to interpret it
Mattiehow they want it to yeah and there's that really great scene where um you you mentioned where johnny is talking he's talking to the mayor of the town roland and he's like i don't he's saying something along the lines of that he doesn't care that david is pansexual he just wanted wanted and
Alexwants him to have like an easy life yeah that like you we we say that the show is existing outside of reality which it it does outside of homophobia not reality well i also think it exists out of outside of reality because capitalism again capitalism is like almost good in this show or but it that means it's not capitalism anyway i mean like johnny says um i you know i just want david to be happy and this might be i think he even says like you know is it wrong that i just
wanted him to have an easy life and that is very much how my dad kind of expressed how he felt towards me and and I used words like lesbian with my parents because it was just easier like I was like yeah this is you know what this is like Rosie O'Donnell like you can relate to that cool let's just roll with this and that's like you said Quinn it's really never brought up again
because why would it because it'd be fucking weird to live well for me at least anyway it'd be weird if uh I talked about my sexuality every time Mattie and I went over to my parents house like we don't have discussions or at least long discussions about gender and sexuality when And we're just like, all right, it's time to play Quiplash and see if there's anything new going on on our gender spectrums.
And it was another wholesome moment for me. and the times then later that johnny and moira uh talk or reflect on david's relationships in in the future they talk about like his problems in the past or like you know in a paternal way not like oh remember when he boinked this dude or or anything like that they definitely talk about
the same way they talk about Alexis, who we kind of presume, and it's implied that she's straight, at least she only dates dudes on this show. And it really reminded me of my parents in a good, again, a really good way. So I don't know. I've really never seen that on TV before. And I don't, I can't believe I'm saying this. I don't think supportive parents of queer kids get a good rap on tv like usually there's like a big fallout and then parents come around but this was just like
yeah it's this thing and it and life moves on to rose apoc- apoc-apoc-fairy apothecary apothecary nope apothecary matthew please words here mean nothing in this show they can be said
Mattiehowever they want champagne should we talk about ronnie before i i forget because i don't want to forget about her yes please um there's this episode and of course i don't have the title pulled up where moira thinks she's uh giving a pitch to uh get votes for town council to a group of lesbians, and it turns out that they're all, um, business in the- business enthusiasts in the town
and not lesbians. I mean, they are lesbians, but that's not the main reason for the group of people getting together, and I just thought it was- it's- it's very cute how any- any question that comes up about sexuality, they just kind of, like, don't get hung up on it, and it's just like, oh, that's not actually what this is about okay and move on and I think that it's great how no one ever makes a big deal about Ronnie's sexuality it's just like yep she dates women that's all I mean we assume
Quinnshe's gay I assume so well because because in the episode I think Ronnie says something like I can I can gather a key demographic for you yeah and and Moira is like ah the lesbians um and then yeah it's all women entrepreneurs which she doesn't realize until like seconds before she's supposed to give this speech that she's written about lesbian rights um yeah and that's beautiful that's another example of of humor in the show that is about queer people but it doesn't it's
not at the expense of queer people um which is really fun i have the really problematic opinion
Alexof i just think gay jokes are awesome i they just need to be funny and not mean like that's the the joke isn't like oh look at all these butch lesbians it's because moira pulled the moira and if you've seen the show you know what i mean um like we we also don't know in the show even that ronnie is a business owner like that becomes part of her character later but it's a slow burn we
actually uh have time to get to know these characters and her sexuality isn't explicitly talked about um but they do at towards the very end um of the oh it's the final episode where she's like oh don't worry uh they need to get flowers and she's like don't worry i know the florist and it's like no but we need flowers now and she's like i know her like and it's not like oh ronnie's a lesbian it's it's just ronnie is this quirky character uh who like whole whole
is like a private person but also isn't ashamed of herself does that make sense i guess like because she's if you looked at her uh you would think lesbian um but she doesn't really talk about her sexuality or her business or like personal life um which is why moira made that mistake but again because moira was being a bit of a ding-a-ling well in the in the later seasons uh
Mattieor season whenever they're building um david's store she's she's in construction ronnie because
Alexshe builds their bathroom so oh my god i didn't even think about like of course she's a lesbian
Mattiein construction lesbian and flannel with a tool belt yeah exactly i literally didn't even think
Alexof that until now because like this show leans into the stereotypes that are true and are like no it's it's not bad that david's flamboyant like that's no like it's his eccentric clothing is delightful and typical of like i don't know it's it's like yes he has a lot of really effeminate traits and they should be celebrated and he as the character celebrates them and my i hope at least
and from what and matt from what you've said about some of the interviews you've read and watched it seems like the human being of dan levy wanted that to be part of it like david is all in with
Quinnhow he is presented yeah 100 yeah and they do make fun of his some of his clothing choices on this show which is always funny because sometimes they are truly ridiculous um but they it yeah it's never like oh this man is wearing something effeminate that's funny no it's just like hey David that's a really ridiculous sweater you got on right now it goes almost to your ankles yeah oh my god um yeah I saw a lot of Halloween costumes last year of like the Rose family because they all
have such distinctive styles of dressing and it makes it very fun I didn't know that those were
Alexthe costumes I was seeing but in retrospect I'm like oh that I saw someone as a wig wall and I'm like oh that's really funny that's amazing oh my god like if we have Halloween again I uh I like the whole show and the whole cast of characters are just fuel for Halloween fodder.
MattieI mean, I would say 90% from my closet is Stevie clothes, so.
AlexOh, Stevie! We should talk about Stevie and David. Well, Quinn, you mentioned that they have a boinking episode after they both get drunk. and no they get high uh but it's not played like for regretsies oh no like a typical sitcom uh but at some point they accidentally sort of end up in a thruple or an open relationship
Quinnsituation oh my god what's that guy's name jake thank you they both i think they see him at a party or something and they both are attracted to him um and then he's just he's so hot um and jake is the most free character in this whole show you we barely know anything about him he makes tables i think is established at one point i don't know he's just he's a free spirit he makes tables and walks around shirtless yeah he has more joy than any of us will ever feel
but um no and then they both end up kissing him at the party and then they both end up hooking up with him and then unbeknownst to each other are like continuing to see him and he thinks he's not two-timing them he's just like this is great dating a bunch of people like who cares we're all having fun here and like they and then but then it's just because stevie and david are friends they're like we can't sleep with the same person can we can can no maybe and then later then later he comes
Mattieback and does he kiss patrick is that what i'm yeah right no or they're gonna he basically invites
Quinnthem to an orgy and then they're both like kind both david and patrick are trying to not trying to not let the other person know that they're into that idea but are like kind of into that idea and then they run into stevie at the pre-orgy party and we're like they're like we gotta go yeah
Alexyeah there's there's no like a kink shaming or anything like that like or you know jake is played for laughs because he is just it's just so silly and happy all the time i wish i could be that
Mattieconfident in my sexuality and just like walk up to people and be like hey yeah even though he and
Alexdavid stopped dating whenever he sees david he kisses him on the lips and it's like oh yep okay this is this is happening um and i i really like well i i said uh like open relationship slash thruple because Jake assumes that just everybody is he doesn't assume consent but he well maybe I don't know he just assumes that everybody's okay with like having relationships
with one another and loving each other and it's it's so weird and delightful and I think that's also why I didn't like him at first like there's a bit of resentment because of the joy in his heart that I know I'll never and the lack of anxiety that I know I will never be able to feel that so it uh oh what was I saying oh um the the whole orgy thing is that's also kind of alluded to like because Patrick uh David's partner and spoiler husband later on um has never been with
man except for David. And at one point, David even brings up, listen, there's this guy who's been flirting with you. Why don't you go on a date with him? See where things go. Because I don't want this conversation to happen five years down the road, which is one, really cute, because David thinks that they'll be together in five years, which they are. And two, because David is realistic and open about the fact like you were um he doesn't say like you were in the closet
but it's like listen you've never been with another guy go do this and he's the the show doesn't make it seem uh like he's not anxious about it because uh of course he's anxious like his boyfriend is out with another dude and up until that point they've been monogamous uh so he's you know just he's anxious because um not not just from like the my boyfriend might fuck another dude but from the oh my boyfriend who i realize now that i love is hanging out with this
a hot guy um and that's another thing that isn't on tv often in like the in the way of like no drama comes of it it ends up like it's like oh david i i couldn't do it aka like i couldn't uh sleep with this dude does does he actually go on a date with him i forget what happens yeah he does on the date but he doesn't sleep with him yeah oh that's right oh because they
make fun of his squared off shoes right right uh but the the conflict is resolved in just or rather there is no conflict it is just resolved in like hey this isn't for me and I really like though that Patrick is like should I explore my kinky side and then it's like I did and not for me. Like, I don't want to go to an orgy and I don't want to fuck this nice man who just has really bad taste in shoes.
When you said that you are fond of Patrick, why? I.
QuinnI'm gathering my emotions. so i first of all i become extremely attached to television characters that i love and because i love david so much like as soon as i saw patrick and knew that they were like heading towards a relationship and that patrick made david happy then i was like i love you um and i also just like love the and i just love the character of patrick because i think that he represents like something
like something new in the show like I feel like once he arrived the show was like complete and he's coming from a different background than David is and he has like way different life experiences but they both complement each other so well and they both like accept each other so completely and like help each other deal with their kind of baggage that they're bringing in different ways and like they have realistic conflicts and arguments but they always like come back together and resolve them and he sings and he does like a romantic gesture through a song
which is a perfect and that's what everyone should do all the time and um it just makes my heart really happy and I like that they uh tease each other a lot one of my favorite little bits in the show is when uh Stevie and Patrick are talking and then David shows up and there's some kind of scene and then David has to go again and he's um oh they're they're saying that he doesn't he doesn't compromise he can't compromise um and then david has to leave again he's like are you just two just gonna stay here and swap stories about how i don't compromise and they they're
Mattielike yes yeah the plungers he doesn't want the plungers at the front of the store who would want
Alexplungers at the front it just doesn't make sense like i was trying to contextualize alex it's so bad it was such a bad idea matthew but they're just so cute together and they're so
Quinnrealistic as a couple in their sort of ups and downs in the day-to-day teasing and um I just want
Mattiethem to be happy forever I mean that technically they ended up happy together forever because the
Quinnshow ended so yay I like did you guys watch the um they did a little bonus thing for charity with Mariah Carey we just watched that today yeah I like I just they did a really the cast it a cute thing um uh in the show david is obsessed with mariah carey um and so they did a cute thing where mariah carey shows up but um i just there's a moment where they like establish that david and patrick are definitely in the same house they're just calling in from different rooms yes which i
Mattieliked that that was freaking adorable we will link that in the show notes the next thing i have in my notes is and uh quinn just brought this up was patrick serenades david wait i want to know what
Alexyou think about patrick what i think about patrick yes i mean i know what you think but the people who who are giving us money don't know and i think they should know i think he's a perfect
Mattielittle soft bean and i want to give him a hug like he's so he's like very when he's talking to Stevie like Quinn mentioned he's very like snarky and they give like David a hard time but he's really just like very sweet and a soft boy and very emotional and I don't know I love it um he's just he's you no uh he's much more attractive no disagree oh that his well and also I can't play
the guitar um or sing like that so but yeah i don't know i don't know i just i love him he's perfect he is uh like quinn said he's like the perfect balance to um david because he he calls david on his bullshit he's like david is very over the top and dramatic and patrick is like has this calming effect on him and is you know the yin to his yang if i'm gonna be like that cliche because he is very grounded and down to earth where David is not and I think that I just like
that he brings that to to the show like he he I would want to be his best friend I would want to talk shit about David with him and like hang out and go to his open mic nights so oh and another
Quinnthing about Patrick that I think is pretty subtle most of the time but it's really well done is that he's a lot more traditionally masculine than David is. Like the way that he dresses would like read as straight most of the time. And he's like really into baseball and sports and like a lot of these ideas of what is considered more traditionally masculine, but he never is like threatened about it. And he does, I don't think there's ever any point where he, where he like considers being gay, like threatening to his masculinity at all.
and he's still able to be like sensitive and a kind partner without that ever like they never show that in any kind of conflict with him like also being really into baseball and stuff like that and oftentimes that's like kind of an easy cheap joke for comedies and I don't think they ever do anything like that um which is appreciated as the show goes on though if you notice his jeans
Mattieget tighter and his uh button-ups get more more and more unbuttoned they do it's the little things i would like to think that's for us as the audience not not for anyone else
Alexas soon as patrick showed up in the show i was worried because i mean instantly you're like oh these two are definitely gonna end up together but because he could pass us straight i thought that was going to be the same old cliche of who's the wife who's the husband uh but but no he is healthy masculinity the character like I whenever he does something um I I guess wrong or like any
conflict in their relationship is never about the typical like oh you just don't want to do that because you're ashamed of being gay. Like at one point, there's an episode where he was it was he married or did he have a fear? Oh, his he accidentally runs into his fiance. And you think that like this is going to be a season's long situation that's going to
end up like Ross and Rachel. But no, it's like this is extremely awkward and it sucks and they have a fight about it. but it's not because uh like he's ashamed of his past he's just like yeah this is this weird thing like he's he's ashamed but not because he was with a woman or that he is gay it's just he's he's a confused soft boy and I keep also going back to the the sports episode and I typically
hate like um kind of like sports episodes or like bottle episodes you know where like the whole thing is based around like the big game or or something but this is done so well that episode is really like healthy masculinity the the episode i i don't know i there are so many things that i can't really pinned down because it feels so fresh and so new and so clean um that's a commercial and a joke that
fell off a cliff because I couldn't remember the rest of the jingle Dan Dan Levy also said
Mattiethat he never wanted to have like an episode of the show in general where there's those sitcom tropes of like miscommunications and everything has been solved by two characters talking to each other and that's why like the drama when patrick and david break up the first time is like really palpable and real and they actually take like the time and space to like talk things through like adults um as opposed to like ah if you would have just picked up at the phone and called it could
have all been all been fixed you know um but it's like that with like every character which is why when it was listed as a sitcom I was like no that's this is incorrect I was wondering why you
Alexpushed back against the idea of it being a sitcom because I'm like it it is but like literally it's a situational comedy but yeah no you're totally right like it is a dramedy in that the drama is real or rather like uh relatable as are the comedic moments I just explained what situational comedy was and I apologize I was talking to myself and then I'm like oh I'll explain that
so hard I wonder who's the David and who's the Patrick in this relationship I don't know this maybe that's also why I have very strong feelings about Patrick
Quinnwait can that be the new who's the man and who's the woman who's the David and who's the Patrick yes
Mattielet's just let's just buy you a closet of oversized sweaters alex i mean i do but
Alexthey're oversized podcast sweatshirts really not as not as um fashionable sorry no i'm trying
Mattiei need to get some fancy rings the last two things i have oh so i have um patrick uh coming out later in life in the episode where they like talk to his parents and I have the proposal episode and then I have I don't know if Quinn did you watch the like little documentary thing kind of after they did this show I actually haven't watched that they they talk about in that which I didn't even think about how Moira is like a giant gay icon which I didn't even think about
Alexbut we can we can skip that if yeah I mean she is a adult lady gaga sort of in fashion rather um but that is something I didn't think of either but I'm not a gay man so like that that makes sense but afterwards I was like oh yay I'm so glad then there's clips of a Moira drag show and it's amazing that sounds really fun we will also put that in the notes because it is
Mattievery amazing is there anything we haven't talked about that you want to talk about besides we should definitely i i am addressing that at quinn no offense alex no i know i know yes i i'm just
Quinnreally excited to talk about patrick and his parents and the proposal yep that's the last
Mattiethat's the last thing i have so let's let's do it so we've talked a bunch about how that
Quinnlike homophobia doesn't really exist in this show and this is the one episode where it seems like it's going to and it's really scary for for a couple of scenes because that's like by sort of not because this show would do that to you but because like that's what all television has taught us to expect is that so um david is throwing patrick a surprise party and he's invited his parents um but he does not know that patrick has not actually come out to his parents and he's not
told them that david is his boyfriend david has talked to patrick's parents a ton but they apparently this entire time have thought that they were just friends and business partners um and i'm gonna get emotional talking about this episode but basically uh david so and then they they find out by accident like at the beginning of the episode that they're together because no one knows it's supposed to be a secret um and then david goes to talk to them and finds out really early on that they're not upset at all that patrick is dating a man they're just really
um confused and sad that he didn't feel like he could tell them and that is sort of what unfolds
Mattiefor the rest of the episode can i just say that this episode made me cry and like it is very hard to make me cry i cry maybe three times a year since starting testosterone and this episode this and the two uh musical episodes where tina turner is is played really got me so and i can
Alexhear alex crying i am not crying i uh i don't know if i've ever talked about like coming out on this show really because it's not like um unlike a lot of folks it's not like really part um of my like like the literal coming out part um you know you come out many times in life um in many different ways uh but the way that Patrick's parents react is very much how
mine did in that uh they well they also knew that I was queer before I did um because they're my parents and my it just kind of it hurt my mom that I didn't tell her um and I would have never thought that and then to see that on tv oh my god like what in the world how is how does this exist in well I know because Canada but not only their acceptance but the fact
that even after everybody knows except for Patrick uh like the Rose family they they all know that um that Patrick's parents are fine with him being gay totally supportive but they're all like it's not our story to tell um so we're gonna let Patrick we're gonna let Patrick uh let us know when he is ready. And that is another really powerful thing, I think, for not just your
partner and your community, but your parents to also know that that is your story is super
Quinnimportant and not something we get to see. And the conversation that David and Patrick have in between David finding out everything and Patrick going and talking to his parents is another moment where David tells Patrick that he has invited his parents there that he's figured out that Patrick hadn't told them and he doesn't tell him that he's talked to his parents already that he knows that they're going to accept him but they have this really special moment where like obviously David is hurt on one level that his partner's parents didn't know about him really
but he also like understands how deeply personal and difficult it is that he doesn't make Patrick feel bad about it for a second he is only there to support him through that conversation and to
Mattiesupport him into fully coming out to his family it is just the perfect queer utopia like it is a
Alexplace I want to pack up and move to and utopia in the sense of like um a literal a literal sense of the world's word because it's not that everything is perfect but everything is ideal to me I guess because guess what David is a human being who can both be hurt and support his partner at the same time like there's nuance without being pretentious uh and as a millennial who went to art school
that is just something I am used to and put into my own work quite frankly for the worst unfortunately and it's like oh no right people contain multitudes and can at once i just think
Mattieit's the most accurate and pure representation of a queer couple in television that i've ever seen
Alexyeah and i don't i really i don't know because if it's because you and i watched it both you know as a couple together during a stressful time in our lives and some of the parallels that we have to the gay characters. But it felt like anybody could watch this story and relate to it, even in the best of times and the worst of times and in whatever, wherever you are on the gender
or sexuality spectrum that big old alphabet web it's like this is a human relationship and not a
Mattiegay relationship which is what more shows need to do like this this is this is a great follow-up to our talk about by representation and erasure because this is what all of those shows need
Alexto learn from like to move forward do we have any quinn do you have any closing thoughts feelings
Quinnconcerns um i love them all so much and no okay my genuine closing thoughts are that uh this show absolutely deserves all the praise that's gotten and it's been nominated for like 100 emmys and i'm really really excited about and so i hope 15 thank you for coming in with the fact checking but that's a lot of emmys it's a lot i came in i only discovered this show or like i only started watching this show like barely a year and a half ago um and in that time like it's taken up it's
just camped out a place in my heart and is going to be one of the shows that I return to again and again as I already have um and especially these moments between Patrick and David partially because it is this like beautiful gay relationship that resonates with me but also just because it's one of the best relationships that I've ever seen on TV and that I care about them as people and as a couple so much that I want to watch them sing at each other over and over again and that is
special for any context and I love that this time around it was this beautiful queer representation
Mattieat the same time. Matthew? Oh I was just gonna say Quinn said that so beautifully um the only thing we left uh the only thing I feel like we left out is the fact that Patrick like comes out as gay so much later in life is definitely something I needed in me I needed like three years ago but having it now is also like perfect and good and I I don't know I feel like there's so much about the show that just I that just touches my heart because it is so wholesome and it's because the
the relationships whether they're family or uh romantic relationships are so well developed and fleshed out and all the characters are just like genuinely good people that the representation
Alexis just like the cherry on top you know even if you're hearing this and thinking okay you all are just fangirling over positive representation one you're first of all you're right how dare you assume our gender canceled um well but but even though i'm canceled you should still watch this show because we've barely touched on all of the other characters um like we didn't
talk about twyla who is the embodiment of wholesome is a like oh god what an angel um and played by oh my goodness i don't remember her name but she's another levy thank you levy wow Sarah damn um I the the thing about this show for me at least is like Rent um I feel like I'm always going to remember the situation and the time at which I at which I watched it initially even though
I've already also returned to it many times and it's already been really formative on my adult life literally in the single month since I've seen it and I know that it kind of got um sort of a late start in terms of its fandom but I can only hope because of the what 16 Emmys 15 Emmys? 15. 15. My goodness. I really hope that more folks discover this. And I also hope that
the levy, the Canadian family, who is truly a national, and now I hope international treasure, get to make more things together. All right, everybody. Thank you again so much for tuning into this episode of Opposite Sides of the Couch. If you somehow found the audio of this without supporting our Patreon, Mattie's not mad, I am, but you can find the main podcast at
twoheadedgirlfm.com and the actual Patreon at patreon.com slash twoheadedgirlfm. And also, Quinn thank you for continuing to be on our show and work with us and put up with us as human beings and by us I mean me I love to be here in these private gay episodes of the incomparable
Speaker AAnd I can't be wrong Take my heart and make it strong You're simply the best Better than all the rest Better than anyone Anyone I've ever met And I'm stuck on your heart I hang on every word you say
Tears apart Baby, I'd rather be dead
MattieI clean this up before you get comfy, okay?
AlexYes. Sorry for all the background noise, but if you have made it to the end of this episode and actually listened through, congratulations. And as a reward, you get to hear Matthew do his Moira Rose impression. Oh no, why did you do that David? No, you can do
Mattiebetter than that. I- baby. Full sentence. I don't- I don't have a full sentence. Frances, why did you do that?
He's a baby.