29. A Lawnmower For Your Face
2022Show notes
Facial Hair and Society
Why is body hair perceived as “masculine”? How can we change that narrative in society? Mattie doesn’t have all the answers. This week he shares his thoughts about body hair and how society associates it with masculinity vs femininity.
Show Notes
- Finasteride for hair loss
- Finasteride and Transmen
- Rogaine for beard growth
- Timeline for Testosterone Changes
- DHT-Free Beard Oil
Tik Tok Beard Advice
Transfemme/Non-binary Facial and Body Hair Positivity
Transcript
Tap a timestamp or any sentence to play from there · machine transcribed (mlx:mlx-community/whisper-large-v3-turbo), expect mistakesMattieHello, I'm Mattie Cox. This is a show about gender, our minds, and all sorts of transitions. Welcome to Two Headed Girl.
Hello, happy January. I hope it is going well for y'all. Today we are going to be talking about facial hair, passing, and masculinity. and I am very excited because I know I've mentioned facial hair before but I've been doing a little experiment where I spent the past four weeks growing out my facial hair which I have never done before mostly because I couldn't and also because I wanted to wait
till it was really cold because you know in the summer it's itchy and you get sweaty and all that gross stuff. So I wanted to talk a little bit about testosterone and genetics and how facial hair and body hair in general helps people usually be perceived as masculine, which has its good sides and bad sides, and just delve into this topic a little bit more thoroughly. I definitely want to mention that I am focusing heavily on body hair in FTM, non-binary mask presenting
individuals. Just because I don't know a lot about trans femmes and binary trans women with body hair, I know that a lot of them don't necessarily feel the need to shave everything. And, you know, it's everyone's own preference and this is just my experiences because I can't speak for the trans femme community so I'm not going to try. Hopefully at some point I can have someone on as
a guest that can put in their two cents and can elaborate on that more. So I feel like when most people start testosterone one of the things they are most excited for is to grow facial hair. And unfortunately for most people, it doesn't start growing like fully in until a year or so on T. And generally the timeline is for a full beard between two and
four years on T. It can start much sooner for some people. I've seen trans masc people and trans guys with full beards by like eight months on T, but that's pretty rare. I also feel like when you're transitioning in your like early 20s, a little bit younger, it does tend to happen sooner rather than later. Around like 25 is peak beard growth time, even for cis men. So it's usually around that time. It also relies heavily on genetics. So my father cannot grow a full beard
for the life of him. He can grow a goatee and a mustache and has done it many times. And that's about it. He's just never been able to grow a full beard, which means I will probably never be able to either, which I'm fine with because of a lot of things, but I will get into that later. Hair and genetics is just a big thing. If the men in your family are really hairy, say they have
lots of chest hair, really thick arm hair and body hair and beards, then you are more likely to get that as well. For me personally, none of the men in my family have a lot of body hair at all. They start balding pretty early, which I've also mentioned. And when I went through first puberty, I didn't really get hit super hard with the changes from hormones. I've just always kind of
appeared more androgynous and I've I've always sort of just had an even more subtle characteristics from puberty so I didn't expect to grow like super thick body hair all over which is good because a Alex doesn't like it and b it would be a lot more work shaving which I already hated shaving when I was, you know, a cis woman. So I wasn't looking forward to any more of that.
Obviously, having thicker and more body hair can be really affirming. And of course, women don't need to shave. And anyone doesn't need to shave. It doesn't matter where you are on the gender spectrum. Like, it's such a stupid societal thing that women should not have any body hair and men should have a ton of body hair and like it doesn't matter you do you I feel like as Alex and I have both become more comfortable in our genders we've worried less about shaving which honestly just
saves a lot of time and stress and I feel like it it brought me a lot of dysphoria before transitioning and I just kind of don't think about it a lot anymore, especially now that I'm on finasteride for hair loss on my head. And I'm, you know, just four years on T, so not really anything is changing right now. So I've gotten all the body hair I'll get. I'm, you know, pretty much in a
stasis, as it were, other than getting old and, you know, turning 32 this year in my body, slowly falling apart, like grunting when I bend over to put my boots on. But that's a whole different, a whole different thing. I'm just feeling my age lately with all this shoveling, lots of snow. But I remember one of the first moments of gender euphoria for me with body hair was I had three tiny little hairs under my chin when I was three months on T.
And I was like, I didn't think I would ever get any hair on my face. So it was very exciting. It was gross and they were long and nasty and I shaved them right away. But I know some people really love their little like scum stash that comes in, especially if you're younger, kind of makes you look like a teenage boy. And a lot of people appreciate that for sure. So when I first started testosterone, I wasn't expecting a really hard shift in secondary sex characteristics, which is your voice dropping, body hair changing, body odor changing.
basically everything that, you know, teenage boys go through in puberty is what happens when you go through second puberty. And the changes can be less for some, stronger for others. It all depends on your own body, your genetics, what amount of tea you're taking, if you're microdosing and want to transition slower, all that sort of thing. So I definitely got gender euphoria when I noticed the hair on my body like creeping down on my wrists like to the top of my hands because
that wasn't something I had before and like when looking at my watch or whatever it made me feel more masculine to me I feel more comfortable in my body with like more noticeable hair but it I think it sucks that that's like a societal understanding of masculinity. Like, anyone should be able to look the way they want and feel euphoric the way they want. They shouldn't have to worry about things that naturally occur or don't occur on your body to be perceived a
certain way. Like, it sucks. For instance, you know, back like in the 40s and 50s, when my grandfather was a young man having a clean shaven face was just expected it was just what most men had I think because a lot of them were like working in factories and stuff and could you imagine having a long beard and getting it stuck in some machinery like that would be that just thinking about that is painful and it was just like I see old pictures of my grandfather and that was just
like the thing then and then beards and man buns and and big like you know lumberjack burly beards all started coming into you could almost say like coming into fashion it's like different fashion trends for women or different like makeup styles or hairstyles it's you know it's it's kind of the same thing and I find myself flipping back and forth being like man I wish being clean shaven was a sign of masculinity. And then I was like, but it doesn't, it doesn't matter. You're still
masculine, whether or not you have facial hair. So it's, it's this whole thing that I'm definitely, I'm working on in gender therapy, and I'm trying to get over it and trying to realize that it doesn't matter. Because my social dysphoria is my worst dysphoria. So that that is what I'm in gender therapy for to work through that. And as much as I would like to have more hair and darker hair, like I know at this point, that's not going to be a thing. But for funsies, I asked Alex and
we decided once the new year started, I could grow out my facial hair, which I've only ever left it for about a week or so. And just over this past year, like 2021, I started getting decent, like noticeable stubble on my chin. So I was like, well, let's try it and see what happens as long as Alex can tolerate getting affection from my scratchy face. So about four weeks is all we can
both tolerate. It's definitely itchy, so I'm not a huge fan of that. But just knowing that I'm able to grow like some decent facial hair if I wanted to and like could let it grow for a while gives me enough euphoria that I don't mind shaving it off if that makes sense it's just like I have this ability like in public when I make my voice deeper like I have this ability I could do it I don't need to to feel comfortable in my body but it's nice to know that it's an option like it's
nice to know that it's there. If I ever did need to change that to feel more comfortable in my body or more comfortable presenting masculine, hopefully Alex and I are going to film me dyeing my facial hair and do a little Q&A before I shave it off just because we think that would be a fun little thing to do and I'm excited for it. I used to think that having facial hair and a deep voice was like the be-all end-all like those were
two things I really wanted from transitioning being on tea for four years and like noticing changes and feeling more comfortable in my body made me realize that I didn't need those things I feel like often when first transitioning, we compare ourselves to other people, especially on Instagram. I had a problem with this. And it's one thing to say everyone's changes happen at different rates and different times. And it's another to accept that yourself internally and be comfortable with how your body changes and not trying to live up to just the ideals you have for your transition or like wanting to be like someone else.
Because everyone is different. Everyone's transition is different. Every cis person's puberty is different. Like there's no one way that it affects anyone. Right. So going in with those ideas, starting my transition that way, I feel like set me back for accepting myself and and liking the way I looked when I first transitioned. And I'm at this point now where I can experiment. Like over the summer, I wore, I've been wearing like pink. I've been wearing like more flowery shirts. And like I, my mom buys me jeans from the women's section.
and I don't mind them because jeans for everyone now are a little baggier because that's just what's in style and it it doesn't give me dysphoria to know they are women's jeans and to wear them not having facial hair is kind of one of those things like having facial hair does not make me a man or not having facial hair is it it doesn't define my masculinity just as clothes don't either and that was something that took me a long time to accept and I'm still trying to accept it fully
and I am very lucky that I have people around me that understand that and are patient with it because Alex definitely does not enjoy getting kissed when I have scratchy facial hair and initially they thought that it was internalized transphobia and we were a little worried that it would become like a rift between us in my transition. But cis women don't like kissing
their partners with stubble or beards too. Like it can also be uncomfortable for them and they can hate it and straight relationships and what have you. And we realized that that was just like a thing. Some people just don't like that. And it's totally understandable. It wasn't about transitioning or being trans. It was just like, some people just don't like that. Some partners and spouses are like, no, shave your face. And once we talked about that, and like, I understood
that that's where Alex was coming from, I felt a lot better about it and more comfortable. And I'm also really grateful that they tolerate it. Like, I'm very lucky that we will make sacrifices for each other, no matter how small and like, have that give and take, it makes me feel better about everything in my transition, actually, social or physical or what have you. And just like getting past that little moment and being like, Oh, no, just any anyone can hate
facial hair, like touching them, it does tickle, it is scratchy, it can suck. And I feel like, a little bit, I've internalized that it would be selfish to have that bothering Alex all the time. And I want to be able to kiss my partner. And I want to be able to kiss my cats on the top of the head without them being mad that I tickle them because my facial hair is long enough that it
will bother their little heads and poke through their fur. And that makes me sad. I want to be able to kiss my cats on the head because they're adorable and I love them. If we want to talk about some of the positive things or some tips about facial hair, I've got some of those. Despite not being able to grow a lot myself, I follow YouTubers and TikTokers, TikTok people, I don't know how you
would say it. People on TikTok that have advice and beard oil is just don't waste your time with it. It doesn't make your facial hair grow. It's not going to do anything for you. If you want to grow facial hair even pre-T using minoxidil which is generic Rogaine stimulates facial hair growth and that's your best bet. There are some side effects that can be worrying and I'll list
them in the show notes. They're usually not too serious just like dry skin, itchy face, but it can also cause like high blood pressure and heart palpitations. So if you're going to do that I would ask a doctor or at least look up the side effects and realize that they can happen. I know for me, when I started using it twice a day, I had heart palpitations and a fast heartbeat. So I went to just using the Rogaine once a day, and then those side effects went away. I also talked to
my doctor about it the whole step of the way. Also using a derma roller, which is, I don't know how to describe it. It's like a little, it's like a little lawnmower for your face. It's got these little like prickles on it and it stimulates hair growth too. So using that on top of the Rogaine can help stimulate and produce more facial hair growth. So those are really my recommendations. Any of that like beard growth stuff, like pills, serums, all that stuff, they just want cis men
and you and anyone who wants facial hair, they just want to take your money. So, you know, I would avoid that because it's not really going to do anything. Taking biotin, I take that for my hair loss of my head and it's a vitamin that makes your hair like thicker and stronger. So that helps everywhere if you want that everywhere. So that's legit as well. But yeah, any of those like lumberjack beard serums. No, that's all bullshit. Don't, don't listen to it. It's not going to help
and you're just going to waste your money. And let's face it, transitioning is already expensive enough. You don't want to waste it on something that won't work. There is a trans guy that is making his own beard oil though and it's like under review right now. I know some trans influencers are trying it out. So that might be a thing in the future, which is cool. We love to see it. Trans people creating things that are lacking in the community and, you know, positively putting
that into the community. We love to see it looking out for each other. Facial hair growth also can be affected by going on stuff for hair loss, which I was not aware of because I was excited about the amount of stubble and like the thickness of my stubble. But then when I started finasteride for my hair loss, I noticed my facial hair not coming in as quickly, my stubble being thinner, there being less of it. And there's this chemical called DHT, which is what my hair loss pills block.
And that also slows down your hair growth everywhere else. Because it's it's blocking your hair from falling out. So it makes things complicated. But from what I understand is because it's helping the hair on your head, it is hindering your hair in other places because it's changing the level of testosterone in your body. DHT is produced by testosterone
to make those secondhand male characteristics come in quicker and happen more strongly when you have higher testosterone. And being 31, if I was a cis man, my testosterone would be lower anyway. So the finasteride, the hair loss medicine, adds to that. It also lowers my DHT. So, you know, just just enjoying the low testosterone all around and it's it's been an interesting thing
to cope with because I love that my hair on my head is thicker but my hair everywhere else is like not growing as quickly and like thinning and that kind of bums me out but I would rather not worry about hair loss and just be able to not think about it like other than talking about it on this podcast and trying to like offer tips and speak about my experience with it I really don't think about my hair anymore or worry about it and I used to like every day like I would look in the
drain and in the in the sink and like in my comb to see how much hair I was losing so if I had the option like I see a lot of older trans guys that are okay with being completely bald and they have a full beard. And I think if I was able to, if I could grow a full beard, I would be okay with going bald. But having no hair anywhere would make me really uncomfortable. I really don't think I would like how I would look personally. So I would rather keep the hair on top of my head. And that's
just, I'm willing to do that. I'm willing to have less hair on the rest of my body to be able to have a full head of hair and not stress about that. So it's kind of give and take. Hormones work differently for everyone and you can't expect your transition to look like or happen at the same pace as anyone else. Appreciating the little moments of gender euphoria like those first little three chin hairs, you've got to take those moments and document them and appreciate them,
Especially if you're going to, because I feel like everyone eventually goes through rough patches where they question, like, well, when is this going to happen? I really want this part of my transition to happen. Or how come this didn't happen to me as quickly as it did to someone else? So appreciating the moments of gender euphoria when they come, I feel like helps push that to the back of your mind or at least eases it and makes it easier. So there's something you can remember and be like, hey, remember when I first started seeing who I truly was in the mirror? Remember when I put on that really affirming shirt? Remember when I started noticing my little scum stash growing in and that made me really happy?
holding on to those moments when there's self-doubt circling in your head I feel like helps me personally break out of those moments and be like oh yeah there is it can be tough to compare your transition to others in terms of how fast your body is changing or what you want to look like or how you planned for your transition to go but having those little milestones and appreciating what is happening to you instead of comparing yourself to others, I think is really what's
important and can help, can help mentally. Because I have been having trans jealousy lately, where I have been comparing my transition to others. And I think it's because I am getting older and naturally my testosterone levels are decreasing as they would with cis men. And I was wearing a hoodie that I have from high school and I am going to be 32. I've been on high school a long time. And while I've been growing out my facial hair, I put on that
sweatshirt and I looked in the mirror and I was like, oh, I see a full grown man. Like I see myself how I would have wanted to see myself younger. And I find myself like mourning my 20s and wondering how I would have looked if I had transitioned earlier in my life and being like, would, would I be different? I, I feel like I'm more in that time of living as my true authentic self, wishing I could have looked in the mirror at, you know, 20, 21 and, and seen more of myself
as I grew up instead of finally just seeing myself the way, the way I've always wanted to be seen in my early 30s. But then I have to remind myself I've been so lucky to even get here and be able to transition at my own pace and my own way because I started transitioning as an adult so I didn't have a lot of roadblocks that most trans youth need to go through like getting hormones, surgery,
not having accepting family and having to wait for all of that because I transitioned later in life I got to speed up that process as much as I wanted to and I try to remind myself to be grateful for that because I just probably wasn't in a place to transition earlier I was going through a lot especially in college with my mental health and being able to be in a good place mentally
most of the time and be at a point in my transition where I look in the mirror and completely see myself is great. And I have to remember that I think most of us have to remember, especially anyone with anxiety or depression or any sort of mental illness, that these things take time and everyone transitions in their own time and I can still be the person I am right now
and be grateful for what I have and mourn my youth as having been hyper feminine and trying to fit in in that world in college and then slowly coming out and into my own, I think I had to go through that process to get to where I am now. And I know that's not true for everyone, but it's just something I've been turning around in my mind for a while. And I think growing out my facial hair
relates to that because I was like, well, now that I am in my 30s, I want to look in the mirror and see a grown man. And you know what? Body hair, facial hair, that has no bearing on whether or not you are a full grown person or have grown into your body the way you need to, or having a beard does not make you more masculine or a man. And society has messed with all of our brains so much.
I feel like as an older millennial, the youth are doing okay. They're finally breaking societal norms. And, you know, don't give a fuck about what society says, but it still makes things it still makes things really hard. Society blows and gender is in so many places still seen as so binary that I have to unlearn these things still that society has taught me even this far into my transition, even this many years into gender therapy, like realizing that society sucks
And I don't need to be anxious or worried about fitting into those norms and boxes because, first of all, I don't want to. I don't want to perpetuate them. I don't want to force myself into them. I need to remind myself that society sucks and we are changing it the way it needs to be and just being out and seeing more non-binary people and seeing they them pronouns and seeing gender neutral clothing sections and big retailers like Target and Old Navy like I realize big
corporations are evil and we should buy things from small trans businesses but just seeing that slowly like seep in into mainstream society more like I don't know getting my coffee at Starbucks every day and seeing pronouns on everyone's name tag and and seeing uh the pride flags up all year and not just in June for Pride makes me really happy. So I not only want to push this toxic masculinity out of my own brain,
but I want to find more places in the world, more corners of society that do the same to make queer youth feel more comfortable and for them not to feel like they're getting forced into gender binaries. And I see so many more young trans people and parents of young trans people fighting for that and perpetuating that gender is a spectrum.
And you can't force kids to do certain things because it'll just really mess them up. Like, the fact that places in society are slowly getting there gives me a little bit of hope and makes me feel a little bit better.
It's funny because I don't know how I got from facial and body hair to society being too binary and needing to change, but I feel like every argument comes down to society sucking or capitalism, so I feel like this podcast has done its job. And to everyone out there who is an ally, realize that body hair does not equal gender. Any gender can have any kind of body hair they want. and to any people transitioning out there or trans youth out there,
remember that no matter what changes you get from your hormones, you will transition at your own pace and you have to be patient and hopefully everything will come in time.
Thank you for listening to this episode of Two Headed Girl. If you would like to support us on Patreon, you can go to Two-HeadedGirlFM or you can find us on Twitter at TwoHeadedGirlFM. This year, I am trying to start up our side podcast, Opposite Sides of the Couch Again, where we discuss queer media, TV shows, books, movies, and YouTubers.
If you would like to be a guest for one of these episodes and talk about any queer media that has influenced you in a positive way or that you enjoy, you can reach out to me at maddyrcox at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you. Thank you for listening. Stay safe, mask up, and remember to be kind to others.